The Great Scow Debate
By:Greg Allen
(Walt Collins) I think the great scow debate will be a fun thing for some our readers
to ponder. The freedom of design within our lose rules is what sets us
apart from the clorox bottle (one-design) crowd. Instead of the boat design
controlling who is the right weight to sail successfully, we get to
design a hull that fits our size, sailing ability, taste, building
skills, artistic expression, etc,etc,etc. Maybe we can get some more
people excited this way.
By the way, if you look at the pictures of the first moths, you see a
shape that is scow-like. Jumping Juniper had a very shallow vee with
horizontal transoms fore and aft. I forget the name of the oldest boat
that sailed with us one year, but it was built in the early 30's and was
also basically a scow. As time went on bows became narrower and vee
angles increased. This was because these characteristics were faster in
the average conditions encountered. But scow wins did happen. I think
Dave McKay's 1969 win was the last at nationals or worlds. George will
have to do some more research on this if we want to verify.
(Greg Allen) We had two scows at the Carolina Yacht Club regatta this weekend
(8/22/98). Henry Cope sailed his Aus. Moth Scow that he got from Henry and totally rebuilt. I
believe the sail number was KA8297. And Randell Stoney Jr. sailed his ’49 Ventnor #1171. Randell
finished 4th in the second race. Wind was at 12 out of the south east with an outgoing tide.
With the tide against the wind the swells were about 3 feet. The Ventnor did quite well.
(George Albaugh) Lewis Twitchel was World champ in 1953 sailing FLYING SAUCER, Nr 1332.
Twitchel's boats were very scow-like. Cates also built some of these, the best remembered Cates scow was RED BUG, Nr 1334.
(Greg Allen) How about Presto, a scow owned and sailed
by Gail Halsey, winning two national championship back in the '60s and early 70s. I'll have to get more details
from George. We believe this is the same scow my Dad, and later Dave Ellis, owned and sailed on Lake
Hartwell in North East Georgia in the late '70s. In fact, Dave Ellis had a piece of the old sail
from that scow with the circle-m, and used it as a flag on the committee boat during "The Meet In St. Pete 98".
The scow was very fast in a blow and well balanced. Nothing could touch her on a reach in a stiff breeze.
(Walt Collins) If you are on a relatively smooth lake/river west of Houston, it might be well suited
to the geometry of a scow.
(Jerry Kuehner) My third moth was one I built out of 1/8 inch foam that was shaped like an E Scow.
That boat was built using one that Harry Cates had hanging in his shop and was a frame boat
covered with canvas. I never did well, but the thing was very fast on a reach in heavy air.
(Walt Collins) More thoughts on the scow. When a scow (moth) is heeled over to reduce wet surface and
pounding, the efficiency of both the sail and the foils are reduced in the lateral direction.
Conventional scows correct for foil losses by having bilge boards and rudders. They accept the
sail losses. The moth has to accept them all. Thus the scow can not be as efficient as a skiff
no matter what you do in light air. The situation becomes more favorable only after the skiff is
overpowered as the wind picks up. So as we agreed before, the scow may be more pleasant to sail
as the wind freshens, but at a price in medium and lighter airs.
(Walt Collins to Greg Allen) Greg, We have had medium to gusty winds from the north at Elizabeth city.
At last years nationals, Sunday morning was like that. With north winds
the river stays smooth on the north side, and only has small waves on
the south. There is no tide chop. It would have been a good morning
for a scow but no one sailed one. When the wind comes up from the SE at
Elizabeth city we get some pretty big rollers from the Albemarle Sound
coming all the way up. So heavy air days at E-city can be either
smooth or bumpy. We have also experienced scow conditions when the sea
breeze kicks in at Brigantine because the racing in that case is along
the shore where the wind comes from. Unfortunately most of the web pictures
are in light air. I think most of the heavy air days are poor for
picture taking because of cloudy skies or rough water keeping potential
photographers ashore.
So far all the windy day at Charleston have been SE winds with seas
coming up river and bouncing of the battery and back
into the race area. last year it was rough enough that Greg Duncan
returned to the dock before the first start to avoid punishing his boat
with all the pounding. A scow would have been a disaster because the
seas were really steep and would have almost surely caused a scow to
dive downwind, and pound upwind. We won't be sure until someone builds
a new one (or restores) and sails it under various conditions.
In the mid 60's Ted Casey built a 50 LB scow that was very fast in the smooth
water-high wind condition. He won the Langley air force base regatta in
it, but it was destroyed a few weeks later when Ted went overboard on a
screaming run and the boat stayed upright, became airborne, did a
forward loop and slammed back into the water. Ted decided not to repair
the boat because he was not satisfied with the way it sailed in light
air, since we have a lot of it here. He also said that the reason he
fell overboard was that the boat tended to skip from wave to wave on
that screaming run and had thrown him out, and would probably kill him
if he kept trying to sail it in high seas.
Something else to consider, huh. Scows probably ride downwind just like a
powerboat in heavy seas, if you keep the bow up, they skip off the tops of
waves and fly into the trough, slam down and then climb up and skip again.
Or they ride down a big one and under the next. Same basic problem, small scows can't
handle big seas.
(Greg Allen to Walt Collins) Dave Ellis sent a video of 470s leaping from wave to wave, and then
totally disappearing into the thrawth, leaving the crew to dog paddle.
My Nacra 5.8 simply goes through the waves. Two weekends ago, so much
spray came off bows that we couldn't see a thing, and twice waves nearly
washed me and everything else overboard, and the boat never lost a beat.
In that kind of wind any skiff or scow would surely have difficulty, as
did the catamaran. Perhaps Greg Duncan's return to the dock was a wise
choice. However, is it possible to capture the virtues of the
scow without it's deficiencies. I agree though, whilst a scow adds variety
to a fleet, moth-scow may fills a narrow niche. But what if we could design
a SCOWFF??? Look at WindSurfers? What do you think?
(Greg Duncan adds)Why Did I Come in? I was sailing a mint design
built by Brian Gregory. After Driving under three different waves up to the mast, trying to
pitchpole I decided that I didn't want to bailout this open boat all day. As I sailed in the
harbour, Gail Swan was sailing out and called me a chicken. Then, just to prove my point flipped
Ha Ha.
By the end of the first race 5 boats had retired, one Orange Crush permently. The hamburgers up
stairs were great as I watched the flipping parade the rest of the day. Carolina Choo Choo
however will go in rough water, and is self rescuing.
(Greg Allen to Walt Collins) I've had a little experience with scows.
Owned two M16s (I still have one). In addition, my Dad owned Doug's scow, and I sailed her
quite a bit. But most of that experience was, like you say, with low waves on a
deep-water lake.
I've sailed the M16 in Charleston Harbor with winds 20 to 25. Besides
the tendency to submarine down wind, the waves will beat you to death
unless you heel at a precise angle.
In Charleston Harbor you can experiences waves even with little wind,
particularly when the wind opposes the swift current. Both the Wando and
Ashley rivers are tidal. When the tide is going out and you get a sea
breeze, the waves become steep with sharp peaks (happens twice daily).
Looking through the pictures on the Moth Page, I see no pictures of
Moths in medium to high wind and only small waves. Same with the video
"The Meet In St. Pete".
When my Dad owned Gail Halseys scow, Dad and I sailed
side by side in high wind and waves. Both Moths were heeled about the
same but Dad had to feather a bit so we could stay together. Both boats
came close to the minimum weight; Dad weighted 25lbs less than me which
proved to be a disadvantage in wind. He was faster when he didn't capsize.
And he did that a lot.
I don't know - I wish I could see more pictures of Moths in higher winds
so as to see the amount of heel and the wave action on the bow. Perhaps
we'll have the conditions I'm looking for when CMBA comes to Charleston
the 22nd.
What if Doug's scow was narrowed in the bow. I wonder if this could be
done without torturing the ply? Then we would have a scowff.
